Samir Balwani 0:03
I'm Samir Balwani, host of Chief Advertiser and founder of QRY. Join me as I talk to industry leaders about their strategies, challenges and successes in managing their advertising and marketing. On our episode today, I have Olivia Morley, former Adweek agency reporter and host of Screen & Sponsor podcast. I'm really excited to have her. I'm going to learn so much from this. Thanks for joining us, Olivia,
Olivia Morley 0:30
thank you so much for having me. Samir, it's great to be here, and I'm really excited to talk more about this, because it's one of my biggest passions in the industry has been something that's been one of my biggest interest areas as a reporter.
Samir Balwani 0:45
Yeah, I know we talked about this ahead of time, and I'm so excited to learn more about it before we even get into the topic of film and marketing. Let's actually start with your journey to how we got to where we are today. So can you tell us a little bit more about you, Olivia, what your career path, what you're doing now?
Olivia Morley 1:03
Sure, you know it's long and convoluted, but it is very interlinked, so all very intentional, which will hopefully make sense by the end of the story. But I started out by happen chance after undergrad at a PR agency, and all of my clients were marketing technology clients, and so I read the trade publications, including Adweek and all of its competitors, like religiously every day. And it was 2016 at the time, and the first Donald Trump presidential cycle was sort of underway leading up to the election, and there were lots of conversations about fake news, things like Cambridge Analytica or ad tech and its relationship to fake news more broadly. And so I was just personally interested. It was almost like, Okay, this is some way of explaining what's going on culturally. So I really honed in on that, and then I went to Forrester after that, to work with the team within the marketing practice at Forrester that writes research for cmo specifically. And as part of that, I worked very closely with Forrester analyst Jay Patissel, who later became one of my best sources when I later went to Adweek to cover the space as senior agencies reporter. And there were a few other stints in between. I worked on the agency side. I was at a content marketing company called skyward, running editorial strategy for Samsung's B to B side of the house. And I did some work in product marketing. So I have this sort of, like, broad expertise in agency and advertising, and also some hands on expertise as a marketer.
Samir Balwani 2:49
That's really cool. So tell me more about screen sponsor podcast and just like, what you're doing now.
Olivia Morley 2:56
Yeah, well, when I was at Adweek, it was really interesting because, you know, I had just moved home to the Salt Lake City, Utah area. Sundance Film Festival, as listeners may be aware, is hosted here in Park City. And so last year I went to Sundance for the first time, even, you know, as a Utah, you know, a Utah native, and I felt so I guess, taken aback by the presence of brands on Main Street. And I got someone I said, Hey, I'm going to Sundance. So many of them reached out to me directly and were like, This is what we have going on. So I went on this big tour of brand activations at Sundance. And while I was there, I also encountered quite a bit of people who were at Sundance to get funding or to look for brand partners to get funding from to launch their films and movies. And so I started to notice this really interesting connection between marketing and the brands that want to show up in the marketing space, and then also the brands that want to invest themselves in some of these projects. The Barbie movie is perhaps the best example.
Samir Balwani 4:10
Yeah, that's really interesting. I'm really curious. And this may be a nuance, but like celebrity in ADS has been a thing forever. Is the integration with film and marketing more about the celebrity integration or more about the film like I guess, did the Barbie integration come as a movie first or as a celebrity integration first is almost where my head's at.
Olivia Morley 4:35
That is a very good question. I think that there are many ways that brands in Hollywood or brands in the broader entertainment industry have collaborated closely over time, even going back to the definition of you know where the word soap opera came from, right, because soap would sponsor the commercials. For all of all of these new dramas that we're airing on TV.
Samir Balwani 5:04
And I did not know that. I just learned that right now. Yeah,
Olivia Morley 5:06
so companies and so there's always been this really tight integration. And you'd have a lot of sponsored news segments, or sponsored news shows that would be like, you know, this is the General Electric news segment at five o'clock, or things, things like that. So it's always been there. But what is interesting about what's happening now is that it's going beyond things like that that honestly used to be more pervasive than you know, what it turned out to be in in more recent decades, which was more of like product placement deals, if a director wanted to incorporate a brand product into a film in exchange for some sponsorship money, then that would help with the project's funding and things like that. This goes beyond both of those things. This is making feature length films that revolve around not just celebrities and not just the stardom of Margot Robbie and Ryan Gosling, but also just the cultural presence and brand cache that Barbie brings to the picture. And do
Samir Balwani 6:18
you imagine Barbie to be a one off, or are you seeing this more as a trend? Well,
Olivia Morley 6:23
we can look back at things that are even, you know, they're still in popular culture, like the new Lego movie with Pharrell Williams that's coming out. And also, you know, more broadly, back to just the the Lego movies that have been made to date, and the crossover with different kinds of entertainment, like songs that, you know, appear on the radio, thinking of the happy song, where everybody's awesome
Samir Balwani 6:53
all the time. So, yeah, yeah.
Olivia Morley 6:55
So, I mean, I think that we are seeing something that is more than just, you know, a passing trend, I think it's something that can take over culture, but is also, there's also a wide range of ways that these partnerships can manifest. Like, for example, you have your Barbie and Lego movies, and then you also have, like, short films that you know, a brand like indeed, for example, invests in programs that support, I think it's first time directors of color, and what they did a few years ago, or helped them the last few years, is help them fund Some of these films, and then they place them in the movie theater pre, pre show slots. So like, I remember going to see a movie one point, and I sat down, and I got like, engrossed in the story I was watching. And I was like, what Movie Preview is? This is so long. And then by the end of it, it was like, one of those, indeed, you know, short films, and so it's things like that too. It's interesting
Samir Balwani 8:04
because it's almost like a convergence of pop culture content and brand, and it's like not really being able to discern the difference between any of it. And I have to imagine that it's got to be a very effective way for a brand to insert itself into culture and comm and engagement and what people are talking about and like the zeitgeist of the world, it's less about taking over it and more about becoming a part of it, right?
Olivia Morley 8:38
Definitely, well, and I think that it works on both sides too. Like speaking of the Barbie movie, I think one of the things that I've been noticing is this greater integration of not just creative partnerships or partnerships between like funding partnerships between brands and directors. It's going beyond that. We're seeing things like extensive marketing campaigns that are tied to some of these productions. So I'm talking about for Barbie like, all of that marketing like, I think, you know, there are Barbie Stanley Cups, there are Barbie there's Barb, you know, every crossover. So, yeah, as a result of of that movie, and I think that a lot of that was very much by design, because at this point it really, there really is such a convergence between promoting the film and creating the film, and they have to be connected, or else the film might not perform well.
Samir Balwani 9:47
Yeah, it's interesting, because on the finance side, like financial companies have been underwriting shows and TV and movies forever, right? Like, there's a reason why AMX. Covers Tribeca Film Festival and is a big partner there. Like, it makes this is almost entirely different, because this is an underwriting, this is a true like sponsorship play and funding play, where you're going to expect some kind of return at the end of the day, right? Like, no one's doing this out of the goodness of their hearts. And so, you know, Barbie Lego Movie, get it? They absolutely blew it out of the water. But that can't always be the case. Like, there's got to be a lot of challenges against doing this. Like, how do you even start? What do you think? Like, where, what are the risks? Like, you know, okay,
Olivia Morley 10:37
this is, this seems to be, and I don't want to speak on behalf of everybody, but based on all the conversations I've had with people so far, this is a high risk, high reward situation.
Samir Balwani 10:47
This is a pull the lottery kind of situation. However, one
Olivia Morley 10:51
thing that I think is really important to know, and that really struck me as I was having conversations with some of the folks involved in this, is that for a brand with a sizable media investment like this is a drop in the bucket, and for an independent film maker like you could create an entire movie, you could bootstrap like a scrappy film for $100,000 that could potentially succeed and Carry your brand for years, and also help your brand create a reputation that extends beyond just the brand, and kind of you know, pervades into culture. And so it is, you know, the fact that you're making the investment without, I guess, a guaranteed return is certainly risk, but in the broader scheme of risks you could take, and marketers certainly, certainly do take, on a regular basis, this is, I think, you know, kind of small potatoes, and so it's an easy win. Yeah,
Samir Balwani 11:52
it's actually, I mean, you know, as a media buyer, one of our biggest things that we are always asking for is like, please give us more interesting, creative and content. We need a story. And it's like, Who's a better storyteller than a filmmaker, right? Like, if we can get a great story, that that would be huge. Exactly?
Olivia Morley 12:11
Well, I was at the Tribeca Film Festival this past year. I did a panel with a few folks, and I was struck by the film The final copy of Elon SPECT. It was produced by McCann with and in collaboration with Ben Proudfoot, who is an Oscar winning short film director. And I had interviewed Ben in the past for work that he had done with another holding group agency, and just sitting there and watching this short film, you know, maybe it was like 15 minutes or 30 minutes long. I cried by the end of the film, and it was such a, you know, a cool thing to see, because these are real professionals that they're bringing in who really know how to take something that comes from a brief and make it truly beautiful, and mostly it's because they have the creative freedom, or the granted creative liberties that they didn't use to be able to to exercise.
Samir Balwani 13:15
Yeah, it almost seems like these films also give brands permission to almost break their brand guidelines and be just like, you know, say what they want to say, however they want to say it, and not feel kind of beholden to this box that they have to stay in.
Olivia Morley 13:35
Well, look, I think there's a few ways that they there are a few options for how they may enter the ecosystem, depending on what they're comfortable with, because I know from working with brands how difficult it is to get approval, even on something small, sometimes, let alone something something really, really big like this. And so I think that, you know, you're seeing different levels of investment, and that's something that the industry supports as well, whether it's like creating more, slightly more cinematic TV spots that maybe you create, you know, sort of like a cinematic universe, right? Like for for your ad, I guess flow is a good example, or any kind of, like recurring mascot that you could then eventually, when you're ready, translate to something off screen.
Samir Balwani 14:36
Yeah, that's, it's really interesting to see how this kind of plays into the overall marketing ecosystem for our brand, versus making it feel like a one off. It doesn't need to be the tip of this beer and it doesn't need to be the entire spear. Also, it's kind of, how does this fit in to the mix, right?
Olivia Morley 14:54
Well. And another cool thing about it is sometimes there are brands that can participate. Right, and attach their brand and their support to something that is already made. And so they don't, there's not so much creative involvement, but is the perfect fit for the brand, like, for example, the documentary film queen of New York, which was produced by the IPG subsidiary, traverse 32 in combination with got to be the hairspray brand. Yeah, the hairspray hairspray brand came in after the documentary was made, and then traverse 32 had a relationship with that director and those producers introduced itit to the hair care brand. And it turned out, after they reviewed the footage, that there was organic footage of got to be hair spray in the film already. So it was perfect. And I think that those opportunities exist, like there, you know, there's so many cool projects out there, brands just need to be open to finding the right fit. It's
Samir Balwani 16:04
interesting because you have given two examples between McCann and IPG of agencies that have already created films or are helping build films. How much do you think the agency world is going to play in creating these films, even before a brand is interested in it? And it's almost like they're, they're kind of funding these things ahead of time as a and then kind of looking for a brand after the fact. Almost
Olivia Morley 16:28
I have so many questions about this myself, because what we're seeing across the industry is so fascinating. You have agencies that are built specifically for this purpose. You have production companies that are built specifically for this purpose. You have brands that are creating their own studios, like Starbucks, which recently announced its own in house Brand Studio, and there are several of these popping up in a sequence across the industry. And then you have these companies that are sort of consultants. I guess it's how I would frame them. Though they do many things and production houses in their own right, which is like Michael sugar's sugar 23 and Michael Sugar is an Oscar winning producer, and so he has relationships on the Hollywood side. And so there's also that model. So I think it's there's going to be more and more of this, and we're just going to see it continue to grow, because it's already happening. But, you know,
Samir Balwani 17:33
I think it's like one of these things where the interesting thing about film, to me is that it's such a talent game, and so most people think talent like the celebrity, talent and so on, but you miss the talent on the director and producer side, and they don't always get the same credit that you know the celebrity does to the average person. And you know agency world is about talent acquisition at one point, right? So if you can keep a director busy, and sometimes that means making a film when you don't have a brand, maybe that is the best path forward and allows you to retain the best talent and you find the brand after
Olivia Morley 18:16
Yeah, well, I mean, I think that that's an interesting idea, this notion of agencies or studios building their own production firms and then going and finding their own stories, or even funding or subsidizing a team of sort of in house, sort of, you know, outsourced filmmakers or directors, you know, who could you could look for the story and write and pursue things semi independently. So I think there's going to be all kinds of models that we see emerge, same as we do with agencies, right? And then I also wonder about agency acquisitions and and plans for how the ecosystem might shake out given all these players that are starting to grab onto different pieces of the pie, it's
Samir Balwani 19:06
really interesting to see a section of media that we thought was pretty standardized and had a playbook just absolutely get shaken up and have an entirely net new playbook because of a handful of movies that have, like, broken through and created, you know, a whole different ecosystem and opportunity. It's really interesting, but it's also very confusing. And so if you're a brand and you're trying to navigate this now, where do you start? How do you even get into this? Let's say you're like, Hey, I've convinced my leadership team that we should do this. I just don't even know what this is. What would you advise somebody? Well,
Olivia Morley 19:49
I would tell them to listen to my podcast screen and sponsor the new era of film making, because that's exactly the resource that I'm. I'm seeking to create and also to expand. There are a couple fantastic resources out there and some great coverage out there. So part of what I'm also doing is aggregating, right? I'm trying to keep track of these stories, because typically how it works within media organizations, or at least in my experience, is it's like, you know, sometimes a big release comes out, like, you know, I guess I'll give the example of the Starbucks studios or something like that. And you want to do, like, a broader piece about all these things, but maybe, you know, it doesn't work within the publication's editorial guidelines or timing or all these things. And so I think that there's a hole in coverage right now, and specifically a hole in coverage in terms of aggregating all of those smaller pieces of news and then sort of figuring out or trying to come to some conclusion about what it means to the industry. And there are some reporters who are doing an awesome job of it right now who I follow closely, like Lucia Moses, you know, and I think the coverage is just growing.
Samir Balwani 21:05
Yeah, I'm excited. I love your podcast. I'm excited to continue to learn more. Thank you so much for joining us today, Olivia, if someone wants to find you online, where can people learn more about you?
Olivia Morley 21:18
You can reach out to me at olivia@fusionfrontmedia.com, or you can go to my substack, that's just oliviamorley.substack.com, navigate to the screen and sponsor blog and podcast link. Thank you so much for having me on Samir.
Samir Balwani 21:38
Oh, thank you so much for being here, Olivia. I've learned so much, and I'm excited about this, so thanks. Thank you for tuning in to this episode of Chief Advertiser. If you enjoyed today's conversation, please subscribe at chiefadvertiser.com, share the episode with others who might find it valuable and consider leaving us a review. Your support helps us bring more insights with each episode, see you next time.
